OT: Apple fans can breathe again!

OT: Apple fans can breathe again!

Old forum URL: forums.lhotka.net/forums/t/8426.aspx


tmg4340 posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010

Before I start, I should note that I am not one of the above-mentioned "Apple fans".  I own an iPod, and I like it well enough.  But I quite frankly don't get the "fetishization" of Apple products (a term I've seen used in the media more than once to describe Apple's hold over their customer base), and I started out life on an Apple II+ and a Mac.

In any event, I'm curious as to people's opinions of the product.  Setting aside the somewhat-unfortunate name (also a topic discussed relatively thoroughly in media reports), I'm not sure.  I tend to agree with the "it's nothing more than a bigger iTouch" concept.  I think it holds some real promise as a book reader, given its size and color capabilities, and it potentially offers more incentive to publishers, since they can set their prices.  I might be more interested if some of our technical publishers get on-board as well - being able to take my books around in a piece of hardware with a screen big enough for illustrations, combined with Apple's gesture support, is intriguing.  Having a bigger screen to watch movies, view pictures, and such is certainly more helpful, but doesn't exactly send my heart fluttering with anticipation.

Maybe my biggest question right now is whether it's worth $500+.  I don't think I'd spend the extra $30 for AT&T 3G either, but I could change my mind on that.

What are other people's thoughts?  Rocky, have you considered this in your publishing endeavors?

- Scott

dlambert replied on Thursday, January 28, 2010

Obviously, it needs to support SilverLight. ;-)

Seriously, though, I caught a bit on NPR last night that was talking about the iPad, and one of the observations was that this further drives a splintering of the web. In essence, we're reversing the trend of equal access to all sites (via the web) by building out new platforms that have exclusive content.

When this happens with games or device-specific applications, I think it's pretty appropriate, but when I start to see Fortune-500 companies releasing apps for the iPhone, I really question whether they've provided similar experiences for people using other devices. If it really takes multiple code bases to build rich applications for iPhone / iPad, Android, Windows, Linux, and even Apple desktops, we're moving in the wrong direction. The web was all about universal access, and I think it's important that we don't lose sight of that.

As a developer, I want tools that (1) make development efficient, and (2) make the finished product available to as many people as possible. Clearly, CSLA helps immensely with the business-objects part of this, but I'm disappointed that the various rich UI options keep moving further from one another.

RockfordLhotka replied on Thursday, January 28, 2010

dlambert:
I'm disappointed that the various rich UI options keep moving further from one another.

I have been saying for years that the UI is expendable. Any time you build an app, you should expect the UI to last only a very short period of time.

This is why a focus on the business layer is so critical. Your UI will shift long before the app itself loses its value. And odds are good that Microsoft will invent a new data access technology before your app loses its value too.

The only part of an app that has a hope of standing the test of time is the business layer. Hence my continual focus on that area with CSLA :)

RockfordLhotka replied on Thursday, January 28, 2010

I have a Kindle. I love my Kindle.

I've watched closely as ereaders have evolved. I'm a Star Trek trekkie after all, and I want a gadget-rich life :)

Books are special though. My wife and I (and now our kids) have a rather extensive library. Many hundreds of books. We literally have a room that is the library in our house.

The idea of reading a book on an electronic device has always been interesting, but such a device has to be at least as fun to read as a real book.

Any device with a shiny screen like a laptop, tablet or iPad, will not win me over. I've tried numerous times, but they aren't fun - too hard on the eyes.

Any device that weighs more than a paperback will not win me over. I like to read in a chair, or laying on the couch. If I can't hold the book with one hand it simply won't work. That also rules out laptops, tablets and the iPad.

But the Kindle meets these needs. ePaper is as easy on the eyes as real paper, and the Kindle's weight is less than many of our books. And the ability to turn the page with either thumb means it is easier to read a book on the Kindle than a real book.

Yes, they've won me over - I'm a Kindle advocate. The people at Borders miss me I'm sure, but I haven't purchased a paper book in over a year - one minute downloads are a lot more convenient :)

tmg4340 replied on Thursday, January 28, 2010

I will agree that reading on a shiny screen does pose issues - I dislike reading documentation on my LCD.  Supposedly the iPad is an OLED screen, which works well indoors and does not have quite the "shine".  I haven't seen one, so I can't directly comment.

What intrigues me (and is, to my knowledge, not possible on a Kindle) is the possibility of having the CSLA books and videos on one device - and on a screen large enough for them to be useful.  Setting aside the current discussion surrounding the rising "cost of entrance" of CSLA, having all the materials available in one place does make it easier...

And as for your weight comment - well, a 1.5-pound iPad is going to weigh less than many of the technical books I own, including the CSLA ones.  Smile [:)]  For pleasure reading, I can certainly see where weight would be a factor.

I don't know whether I'll ever get that "holy grail" of electronic media, but I don't think the iPad is it...

- Scott

RockfordLhotka replied on Thursday, January 28, 2010

Dan Billingsley:
We've had table PC's for a while now. Except for a few niche applications, the market seems to have concluded they're a solution looking for a problem.

I think it all comes down to economics though.

Sure, we've had tablets for a long time. They were underpowered and overpriced. It was pretty unrealistic to get a tablet that could do dev work and not go broke - if you could find one powerful enough for dev work at all.

But this new generation of tablets (like the Acer 1420P) is only a tiny bit more expensive than a comparable laptop, it provides a very nice Win7 multitouch experience, and it runs VS10 just fine.

To date the cost/benefit difference has made tablets unworkable for more people. But if you could spend just an extra $20-50 to get a tablet with the same specs as a laptop, I suspect you'd spend that money. I know I won't willingly go back now that I'm here :)

Mick_G replied on Thursday, January 28, 2010

The one thing I can't help but be reminded of, and the one thing I want to scream out over and over when I hear most of the Pundits pontificating in the Media, is: "Its the software stupid!" I heard on NPR this morning someone saying I wish the IPad would of been more of a social networing device? The kids take pictures of the grandkids on a vacation, grandma automatically has them when she turns on her IPad in the morning? Hell man looks like an app to me?

Mick

RockfordLhotka replied on Thursday, January 28, 2010

I do hear what you are saying about having technical content all in one place - like the CSLA videos, ebooks, etc.

Honestly, I think the iPad is not the answer for that. I think a Win7 tablet is the answer, I really do. Because you can watch the videos, read the ebooks, participate on the forums and then use what you've learned to build some software - all on that one device :)

Though for a more focused viewing/reading/browsing experience I think a thinner, lighter Win7 tablet (slate?) that didn't have a keyboard at all (no rotating screen) would be excellent.

Mick_G replied on Thursday, January 28, 2010

Good point, my sister loves her Kindle, I just wish more tech books were in that format I might buy it just to save money in the long run. I love being able to cary a book to the can but the laptop is a little large.

Mick

tmg4340 replied on Friday, January 29, 2010

Mick_G:

I love being able to cary a book to the can but the laptop is a little large.

Mick

And that right there may be why paper books, magazines, and newspapers never die... Smile [:)]

- Scott

tmg4340 replied on Friday, January 29, 2010

RockfordLhotka:

Though for a more focused viewing/reading/browsing experience I think a thinner, lighter Win7 tablet (slate?) that didn't have a keyboard at all (no rotating screen) would be excellent.

Well... to me, that sounds an awful lot like an iPad.  Smile [:)]

- Scott

RockfordLhotka replied on Friday, January 29, 2010

tmg4340:
RockfordLhotka:

Though for a more focused viewing/reading/browsing experience I think a thinner, lighter Win7 tablet (slate?) that didn't have a keyboard at all (no rotating screen) would be excellent.

Well... to me, that sounds an awful lot like an iPad.  Smile [:)]

- Scott

Yes, except it wouldn't have the limitations of the iPad because it would be running Win7. So your Silverlight app would work on it as well as anything else.

I do want the form factor - I want the thin slates from Star Trek DS9 - but I want them to actually do stuff, which (in my current worldview) means they need to run Silverlight.

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